Gutfeld: There’s an ideology of punishment
‘The Five’ co-hosts sound off on the left’s disconnect from high gas prices.NEWYou can now listen to Fox News articles!
This is a rush transcript of "The Five" on March 8, 2022. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
JESSE WATTERS, FOX NEWS HOST: Hello, everybody. I'm Jesse Watters along with Judge Jeanine Pirro, Geraldo Rivera, Dana Perino, and Greg Gutfeld. It's five o'clock in New York City, and this is The Five.President Biden finally banning Russian oil as Putin's warm machine ramps up attacks on Ukrainian civilians. Under bipartisan pressure Biden announcing a stop to importing Russian energy. But instead of promising to produce more oil here at home, the president pointed the finger at everybody else and doubled down on going green.(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I'm going to do everything I can to minimize Putin's price hike here at home. It's simply not true that my administration or policies are holding back domestic energy production. The oil and gas industry has millions of acres leased. They have 9,000 permits to drill now, they could be drilling right now, yesterday, last week, last year.Loosening environmental regulations point back clean energy investment won't, let me say it again, won't, will not, lower energy prices for families but transforming our economy to run on electric vehicles powered by clean energy with tax credits to help American families winterize their homes and use less energy, that will, that will help.(END VIDEO CLIP)WATTERS: While President Biden focuses on that, Americans are getting crushed by surging cost prices. The cost hitting an all-time record of $4.17 with no signs of slowing down. And V.P. Kamala Harris not doing much better. Check out these tone-deaf comments while Americans suffer.(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Imagine all the heavy-duty vehicles that keep our supply lines strong and allow our economy to grow. Imagine that they produced zero emissions. Well, you all imagined it. That's why we're here today. We are also announcing funding for, yes, one of my favorite topics, electric school buses.(END VIDEO CLIP)WATTERS: Looks like she's doing a reading at kindergarten, Dana. Get to her in a second. But I heard some grumblings from you when Biden was blaming energy companies for high prices.DANA PERINO, FOX NEWS CO-HOST: Do you re -- this is the thing that drives me crazy. Do you remember when the Biden White House, I remember the day, it was on Fox News Sunday, and a White House senior advisor came on and said that it was actually Republicans who wanted to defund the police.WATTERS: Right.PERINO: And I said are they saying that with a straight face, are they actually going to try to get away with that? And then they did for a couple weeks and then they dropped it because it's not true.The -- this, I feel the same way about this energy issue as well. We were already seeing really high energy prices before Russian invaded Ukraine, so let's start there. And if you look over the past, you can find the quotes, we played one this morning of the secretary of energy laughing about high gas prices on November 3rd saying wow, if I had a magic wand, boy, I would love to do that.Over and over again you can find administration officials who say it's -- we're going to have to go through pain in order for us to do what has to be done because, you know, the world is going to end in ten years because of climate change, and they basically said the higher prices are what you were going to have to pay. The whole point about the leases, what bothers me is -- permission to make an analogy.WATTERS: Permission granted.PERINO: Imagine that you finance a car, OK, you get a new car, you finance a car, you go through all the paperwork, you're so excited. But they won't give you the keys. That's what's happening here. And so, they're saying what do you mean?WATTERS: Right.PERINO: You can drill tomorrow. And it's like, but you -- well, I don't have the keys to do that.WATTERS: You have the lease but you don't have the permit.PERINO: That's exactly right. The other thing I would say is they have tried to get so much ink from the media, a sympathetic media about how great they've been, about trying to get America off fossil fuels. And basically, they're outsourcing all of their carbon emissions to places like Saudi, Venezuela, Russia, et cetera.Final thing I'd like to say about this is when Kamala Harris says just go buy a $60,000 energy -- electric vehicle. Like what planet are they living on? The -- it's like when she said that nobody saw the Omicron variant coming.WATTERS: Right.PERINO: So why weren't they planning on any of these Russian sanctions on oil and gas before? Why do they have to be dragged kicking and screaming and wait for 76 of America to say we're willing to pay higher prices if these are the prices that is going to take. Why do they have to wait for their poll numbers to come in and say, actually this is what's going to happen.Why did they have to wait for Nancy Pelosi to say no, we're doing this and she was going forward even without them. So, I think it's been a bad day on the energy front. However, it could lead to something better and if we're pushing on an open door and we're going to allow more exploration in America we should go for it.WATTERS: You have to push pretty hard on these guys. But you know, Greg, we've been pushing the Russian oil import ban and they caved. Maybe, maybe there's a chance if the pressure builds.PERINO: Yes, right.GREG GUTFELD, FOX NEWS CO-HOST: It's what, 8 percent of our imports? That could easily be absorbed by drilling more, right? Or even like hitting Canada up for more. But I like how Joe is framing this. This is a hardship that we must accept. He said defending freedom comes at a cost. And that is -- that is not true. That is not -- it's the environmental clap trap that comes at a cost.This is not about freedom. There would be no cost if we didn't demonize drilling, if we didn't shut down pipelines if we didn't demonize fossil fuels. So, it's not about defending Ukraine. It's about exposing the destructiveness of the green, I would say the green ideology which is part of a larger ideology of punishment, right?Rich countries can handle this, just pay more gas. It's the poor countries that are going to suffer and it's going to be poor people in the United States, right? So, you have Twitter celebrities like George Takei and other losers who will say, you know, you know we should pay more to support Ukraine but they're not truckers, they're not salesmen, they're not Uber drivers.This is the same detach mentality that we found with shutdowns, right? It's like everybody could handle a shutdown --WATTERS: Yes.GUTFELD: -- if they were in the media because all we did is we did our shows from our living rooms. The same people that tell us to live with it can live with anything. So that's either climate change, COVID, inflation. And once you see that you can't unsee it. There's an ideology of punishment and it's that you can handle the punishment, they're above it.WATTERS: I saw some media today, Judge Jeanine, and they weren't clamoring for Biden to pass out more permits and leases. They were telling Americans you just have to drive slower, you know, don't accelerate too fast. That's how you save.GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT-AT-LARGE: Remember Jimmy Carter, yes.WATTERS: Put on the sweater, right?JEANINE PIRRO, FOX NEWS CO-HOST: Yes, well, you know, they actually referred to it as Putin's price hike.WATTERS: Right.PIRRO: You know, let's make -- let's make the new energy Putin as if we didn't hate the guy enough already. Look, Biden started the war on energy long before Putin decided to invade Ukraine and the trouble with this is, for anyone to believe that this is really about Russia and the Ukraine, that is to actually ignore the fact that, for years, there's this green left energy constituency that's been trying to get us into electric cars.One percent of Americans have electric cars. I don't care how much Kamala wants to go up there and laugh and giggle and say imagine. I feel like I'm in the middle of a John Lennon song. And you know, I'm not going to drive an electric car right away. And we've got to get oil and gas from somewhere.We can do it in the United States, we already know that. And here is -- here is the thing that I think is most insulting to the American people. If you really think that the people who produce oil are not chomping at the bit saying holy moly, it's 130 bucks a barrel, I've got to get myself into this business, I want to make some money.They can't even get a permit to make a road to get to the site where the lease takes them, let alone decide whether or not there's actually oil or gas, whether or not they can drill. I mean, it's just, everything they're doing is anti-American energy.WATTERS: You know the people better than most, Geraldo, if you're making 50, 60 grand a year and you're filling up your car.RIVERA: You talking about rich people? Oil people? What people are you talking people?WATTERS: I'm talking about regular Americans that are getting hammered --(CROSSTALK)RIVERA: I do know regular Americans.WATTERS: -- if you're making that much money and you're spending $100 to fill up your truck, how long can you wait for a wind mill?RIVERA: My fear, Jesse, is that we are burying the lead. The lead is no more Russian blood oil. That's the lead. So, Russia has been hit. Now with the sanction, the only sanction that they truly feared was a cutoff of their only product. Russia, after all is a first world army, third world country gas station, that's all it is. It produces oil and gas.So, we've hurt them. We finally have hit them where it hurts. They are killing civilians. They have unleashed this massive refugee crisis. They have been destroying this poor country, Ukraine, on their border. I wanted to stick it to them and I think the president finally has.ExxonMobil and Chevron, as you know, today announced that they are increasing production in the Permian Basin for exactly the reasons Judge Jeanine that you suggest, they want to cash in. But I also think that we have to go with caution. These oil speculators are the wolves of Wall Street. These are the people that drove the price of a barrel of oil down to zero at a certain point because of the speculation. It's a lot of that.(CROSSTALK)WATTERS: Well, because we're in a pandemic. Wasn't that during the pandemic?RIVERA: There's a lot of profiteering going on is my point. And I think that if you just say it's all about Biden not drilling, you're missing some of the truth.PIRRO: Are you serious?RIVERA: I'm -- well, are you hearing me to be unserious?WATTERS: Sometimes.RIVERA: You may take me unserious but I am very serious.GUTFELD: The good news is McDonald's pulling out of Russia so no gas from them.WATTERS: That's true.PIRRO: That's true.GUTFELD: Thank you.WATTERS: The Russians are going to get much more healthy and much skinnier now that that's happening.All right, Geraldo, we still don't take you seriously, but we're going to move on. Coming up, a potential game changer in Ukraine, Poland offering to send Zelenskyy fighter jets.(COMMERCIAL BREAK)PERINO: Ukrainian President Zelenskyy is refusing to back down, vowing to stay in Kyiv despite the Russian military vicious attack on his country and hit squads trying to hunt him down. Zelenskyy revealing his location in the war-torn capitol of Kyiv and sending this defiant message.(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PRESIDENT OF UKRAINE (through translator): I stay here in Kyiv at Bankova Street. I don't hide and I'm not afraid of anyone. I will stay here as long as it's necessary to win in our patriotic war.(END VIDEO CLIP)PERINO: And as President Zelenskyy begs the west for more help, Poland today announcing it is prepared to deploy MiG-29 Fighter Jets to a U.S. and NATO air base in Germany giving America the option to transfer those aircraft to Ukraine. The State Department says it was caught off-guard.So, let's go to Mike Tobin, he is in Lviv, Ukraine with the latest there. Good evening, Mike. I think it's just after midnight there.TOBIN: It is. And Poland was reluctant to make this move fearing that slippery slope to combat of east versus west if they were to donate the aircraft. And suddenly, there came this announcement today that Poland would donate its fleet of MiG-29s with the promise that the U.S. would back fill them with F-16s. The problem with it is officials say they were blindsided by this announcement. Here's the undersecretary of state.(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)VICTORIA NULAND, U.S. UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR POLITICAL AFFAIRS: When I saw that announcement by the government of Poland as I was literally driving here today, to my knowledge, it wasn't pre-consulted with us that they planned to give these planes to us. But, as you know, we have been having consultations with them for a couple of days now about this request from the Ukrainians to receive their aircraft.(END VIDEO CLIP)TOBIN: Now the Ukrainians would welcome this development because their pilots are trained to fly the MiGs and there seems to be a mechanism through which the Polish government can put it back on NATO by putting the planes back into, back into the Ramstein Air Force Base.But, again, the Ukrainians have requested time and time again for a no-fly zone or the way the Ukrainians put it, to close the sky. They feel it would very -- it would be a step toward equalizing this fight. In fact, one of the refugees that I spoke with yesterday said they very much want to close the skies because if you can take the fight to the ground, he said, we'd kill them like rats. Guys, back to youPERINO: Mike Tobin, thank you. Stay safe, and we'll see you later tonight, I'm sure. Jesse, what do you think about this move by the Pols?WATTERS: Pols really tried to force their hand, didn't they? That was -- it came out of nowhere. I don't think the Pols want their hands dirty but do we want our hands dirty? Why transfer the jets to Ramstein? That's a U.S. air base, technically in Germany.It seems convoluted to me. But again, this is Europe again trying to drag American into a land war potentially in Europe where they should be the ones taking the lead. This is a NATO alliance, it's a defensive alliance, let's not expand it and play a game of chicken with someone who has nothing to lose.Putin has nothing to lose. Its economy is cratering. This is his last gasp here. This is all or nothing for him and I don't -- why would you play chicken with someone like that? He's just going to go all out so it's incredibly risky. I'd just like to be a little more measured.You know, we give them things here, we give them things there, we kind of ramp up, see how Russia reacts. Because if we just start sending air crafts into that war zone, I mean, what happens if that pilot engages a Russian antiaircraft battalion down on the ground. So, we're taking out Russian --(CROSSTALK)RIVERA: That would be --WATTERS: -- antiaircraft batteries in Russia proper or Belarus? I mean, that's how you have to defend yourself in the sky. I'm just afraid of this spiraling out of control. We have gone the entire Cold War with never having to get into a shooting war with the Russians. And then now all of a sudden, we're going to escalate right on their front door.Now I like the idea -- this is a proxy war, right? We're on a proxy war. And we're doing it right on their doorstep, I get it, that's where we are now, but the jet thing seems a little risky. And I'm not -- I'm not ready to say, hey, Biden, you're a commander in chief, you're in charge, I trust you. This is not a guy I trust to manage this type of delicate deal with the Russians who are desperate right now.PERINO: Well, the other thing is, earlier today we were told that there was frustration that this decision making was stuck at the White House and we asked Admiral Kirby about that and he's like, no, no, no, everything is fine. But clearly, everything is not fine, Geraldo. If the Pols decided like, OK, we will force your hand and send this to Ramstein.RIVERA: You know, I think that the whole idea of it in theory is fine and noble and it sounds like it would be objective and it would answer our nagging, you know, gut-wrenching feeling that we're allowing the Ukrainians to be pummeled from the air by the Russians air superiority. But I don't see it happening. Mechanically, what do you do? You send the Ukrainian pilots to --PERINO: Yes.RIVERA: -- to Germany, then you've got to check them out. You have to make sure they can integrate the Polish instrumentation with the Ukrainian air defenses and so forth.PERINO: That's what happened in World War II.RIVERA: It's, I think that in World War II in (Inaudible) it happened but it took a long time --PERINO: Yes.RIVERA: -- and Europe is still mad at us for taking so long to get -- to get involved and to get engaged. I like the idea in theory, I just don't see it. I agree with Jesse about the need to be measured and not provoke, you know, a wounded lion there.One quick thing about Zelenskyy and his safety. I think Zelenskyy is already immortal. He's already Leonidas. He's already Churchill. They can't kill Zelenskyy. Even if they kill him, he will -- he will live on forever. Now I don't know if he's reckless, and I think that he, again, he is poking Putin maybe unnecessarily, he has made his point. He, you know --PERINO: Got it.RIVERA: -- he's very flamboyant in it and now I want him to keep tracking.PERINO: What about you, Judge. You've got -- you've got a pensive look on your face.PIRRO: Yes. You know, I have to tell you, U.S. has always taken the lead with NATO and I think, you know, that this is very complicated. But I also think that if Poland is willing to give, you know, the MiGs to the Ukrainians, and that our job would be to back fill, what is the problem?And you mentioned it, Geraldo, and I throw this out for discussion only, with Ukrainians getting that plane from Poland or from Germany? And flying it? I mean, these -- we're watching the massacre of a nation and children - - this is -- this is cannibalism what's going on there. It's terrorism.RIVERA: I agree with that.PIRRO: This is medieval. And so, whoa, we got to make sure they know how to fly the plane. Baloney. Let them -- if we can get the planes to them -- and make no mistake, Putin is going to change the rules at every turn. If you provide a plane, you're provoking us. If you do this, you're provoking me. At some point we've got to stand up and say we're stronger than you are you little --RIVERA: What if he fires a tactical nuclear weapon?PIRRO: Well, that's the problem.PERINO: That's the problem.PIRRO: That's the problem. And what if we like kowtow and so he's got no incentive to not do it and say, we're not even going to -- we're not even going to do our nuclear exercises because we don't want to intimidate him.PERINO: Greg, any --(CROSSTALK)PIRRO: We got the wrong guy in the White House.PERINO: Lots to choose from there.GUTFELD: Yes. You know, with I think that the overarching message is we should be very weary of being pulled into anything based on narratives coming out of Ukraine or Russia. There's a lot of stuff that we hear about that turns out to not be true.The media is framing this in a way that -- and this isn't my analogy but this is the way I feel. That Ukraine is like the child of a divorced and they're fighting for custody, and Russia is the biological parent and we are the step mom who doesn't want the abusive dad to get him.That may not be an accurate analogy but that's how I feel the narrative dynamic is going, and I see -- this is what I give credit to Zelenskyy, is that this is the old world versus the new world. Putin thinks the world is only about seizing land but Zelenskyy understands in a world of connectivity you're seizing minds now.He's fighting a persuasive battle for minds and he's kicking Putin's butt on this. Whether the stuff that Zelenskyy is saying is actually true, it's positively Trumpian what Zelenskyy is doing. I love Zelenskyy the way a chicken loves the guy who feeds him pellets because I'm in a industry where I love getting that pellet every day and learning what I'm going to say.But you have to wonder when you're listening to this stuff and whether these pellets are real or not whether we're being artificially pulled into a conflict, right, through this David and Goliath narrative that we're being given.RIVERA: But it's trueGUTFELD: Well, maybe it is.PIRRO: It is true.GUTFELD: Maybe it is. Is this true? Maybe it is. I'm not saying it's not true. But I'm saying you have to be aware of what's true versus what stands out. Every day plans -- planes leave every second of the day. We -- the only thing that stands out is when a plane crashes.So, we like the stuff that stands out to be reported but it's not necessarily representative of reality. We have to ask ourselves every day are we being manipulated into entering a war that we should be no part of it and I resent anybody saying you must be pro-Russian or pro-Putin. No, I'm pro America.RIVERA: But you got to -- you can't deny your eyes though. You can't.(CROSSTALK)GUTFELD: I don't think we should get involved then.RIVERA: I understand that (Inaudible) tough narrative. I think, what I argue is getting involved as far as we can get involved giving them everything, they possibly need that we have up until -- like the Javelins, the Stingers --PIRRO: Yes.RIVERA: -- the other shoulder fired missiles. We're knocking helicopters and aircraft and Russians out of the sky. If the story is true that David is now mustering his strength and he's taking on this Goliath effectively and the convoys are still stalled and weapons are being, you know, tanks abandoned and crews surrendering, you know, it could happen and it's a happy ending.GUTFELD: I hope so.PERINO: All right. Ahead, Putin's brutal assault on civilians gets even deadlier after another attack in Ukraine. We'll show you the latest.(COMMERCIAL BREAK)RIVERA: Russian's inhumane and illegal attacks on innocent civilians continues. Twenty-one people viciously slaughtered in an air strike including two little children today. And Putin's murderous madness doesn't end there. Hospital attacks, ambulances across the country reportedly getting hit.Russia violating ceasefire agreements that Putin had previously agreed to, ruthlessly shelling evacuation routes, deliberately targeting Ukrainians as they try to flee.You know, Judge, did you see the New York Times yesterday in the morning?PIRRO: Which?RIVERA: A picture with Lindsay DeDario, the two children dead in the street?PIRRO: Yes. Yes.RIVERA: I mean, somebody is guilty of an atrocious war crime there and he stands accused now by the entire world. But as a parent or, you know, grandparent, you see those little children with their little puppy coats, the quilt coats that they wear to school and their little school bags and the knapsack on the back. I mean, come on. We've got to -- we got to understand that our honor is tied to Ukraine's survival.PIRRO: Well, you know, one of the things that I think about is the fact that America at one time was seen as the number one superpower, you know, the country that everybody dies literally to come to in order to start a life here.RIVERA: Right.PIRRO: And we're like, kind of cowering in the back. It's not as though Zelenskyy didn't ask us in October, ask the Biden administration in October, November for some military support. And you know, it's not like we didn't know about this. And today, we decide overnight, after 13 days of bloodshed that we can't even take it anymore. We're going to stop buying Russian oil.Look, the problem is that this is right in front of us, that we're seeing children die, children with tumors not getting their chemo treatment. And we're just sitting here and saying, well, you know, we got to watch this rule and that rule. Baloney.This is about human beings helping other human beings. And the refugee crisis, God bless Poland to take your 1.2 million. They took a whole bunch of them in 2014. But look at these children crying, ripped away from families, ripped apart. Imagine what it's like to say, I'm never going home again, I'm never going to be in my own bed again and leaving. I mean, we got to do something.I'm sorry. I mean, I'm not into this -- you know, we can't be suicidal about it, but we've got to be more humane about it.RIVERA: On that point, isn't your prudence, Jesse, at war with your feeling that we must help, that we can't allow these scenes.WATTERS: Of course.RIVERA: So, how do you reconcile? How do you reconcile?WATTERS: What did Dana said the other day? Her heart is in a fight with her mind and everybody feels that way.RIVERA: Well said. Well said. Yes.WATTERS: If the President of the United States gets out on national TV and gives a big speech and says, American national security is at stake in Ukraine and here is why, and he made that case, you would have people scratching their head and saying maybe we should do a no-fly zone.He has not made that case. I have not heard that case from a lot of people. The United States of America has not intervened in a lot of wars throughout the world, genocides, human catastrophe, a lot, OK. Well, it's right now up to NATO to defend NATO countries. If Article Five is triggered, of course, you go in. Of course, now you just throw as many weapons at this as you possibly can and support the hell out of the Ukrainians because it is a proxy where we have to fight to the death now.But, Geraldo, I'm afraid, I'm afraid of going in and having a jet shot down. I'm afraid Biden bumbling us into war and Europe again like we have a couple of times in our history. I don't like it. And Russia looks scary right now. They look backed up against the corner. What's stopping them from dropping a tactical nuke just to scare us away? What do we do then? What do we do then? That's what --RIVERA: Excellent question. And it is, of course, the dilemma, Dana, that we all face. What do you think of the move by I think it's mostly Republicans in the foreign policy establishment. I know that's a contradiction, but where the no-fly zone would only be for the protection of civilians being evacuated.PIRRO: Limited.PERINO: Yes. And it depends on how you're going to define it. But I think even as you get closer and closer to saying something would be a no-fly zone. To Jeanine's point he -- Putin is always going to say that no matter what you do -- the fact that we even woke up this morning as a provocation to him.RIVERA: True.PERINO: Everything could be a provocation. But I would like to talk just a moment about the humanitarian issues. The International Red Cross is a great place if you want to try to help. The Pols are doing a lot, but so is Moldova, and Romania, and Slovakia. They need help in order to do that. There's a lot of trauma that has been experienced by the women and children that have fled in the elder citizens who had to leave with anything that they could find.I would love to see a little creativity on the idea for a humanitarian corridor. Is there someone -- is there the Swiss or is there somebody who can say, let us do it?RIVERA: Good idea.PERINO: Let's try to do it. And let them try to figure out a way to get people to safety and see if Putin would be -- would allow that. That might be some sort of creative way.RIVERA: How about the Chinese?PERINO: Well, that -- it did cross my mind, but I wasn't going to say it, but yes, sure, give them a job. The other thing is, I think that the First Lady has an opportunity here to bring together the living former First Ladies, along with the first ladies of Europe or the first gentleman in some cases, and figure out a way to get some humanitarian relief to these people in terms of a fundraising effort or something like that.I think there would be a willingness to do that and the outpouring would be quite remarkable across the country.RIVERA: I sense in all good ideas. I sense, Greg, in you a conflict that you don't know -- you're not convinced with the prevailing narrative.GUTFELD: That's pretty good assessment. I can feel the galvanizing force of these stories that kind of have sped up and are accumulating to create a narrative and they only go in one direction. And I understand why they only go in one direction because it's the invaded who experienced the atrocity, right? And that's all we're going to see.However, I can't help but feel that this is a lot like other stories that we've gone through in the digital age in which an image is taken, and then played over and over and over again to create some kind of emotional response out of you, because that makes a profit for news companies, right?So, we had -- for a long period of time there we saw nothing but videos of police brutality, and then over time we discovered the mundane reality that police were interacting with suspects in high crime areas. And that led to certain kinds of problems. That's the mundane reality. But instead, we were pummeled, pummeled with images of police brutality, which led for a year of riots.There's some good things and some bad things coming out of this era. This is like a crisis that you're seeing in the digital age. So, that means there's almost a self-healing capacity around the world, everybody can join in and do something about it. I think that's really good, whether it's like humanitarian or what -- we're all seeing it at the same time.There are crisis like this that have happened for thousands of years, and nobody knew. We just didn't know, but now we see it. The bad part about it is there is this galvanizing kind of narrative that is there to create a reaction. And if somebody like me says, hold on a second, and you try to counter the drumbeat, you're seen as an inconsiderate, cold-hearted pussy.But if you amplify this story, if you amplify that story, why can't you be called pro-war? If you want to push this stuff, why can't I call you pro- war? We are stuck in the prison of two ideas right now, where it's you're either got to be one way or you got to be the other. It's not as clear as that. It's somewhere in the middle. And just saying that you have to do something is not enough. Just because the news is pushing these videos at you, doesn't mean you got to do something.RIVERA: And on the other hand, I cannot forget Lynsey Addario's photo of those two dead little children. And they were dead, unequivocally --GUTFELD: And unfortunately, we forget a lot of things that happen here.RIVERA: More on the Iranian --GUTFELD: (INAUDIBLE)PERINO: Oh, no. oh, no.RIVERA: More on the Ukrainian refugee crisis, a live report on the suffering next.(COMMERCIAL BREAK)PIRRO: The refugee crisis getting worse by the hour. More than two million people have already fled Ukraine including one million children. Families being ripped apart from their loved ones as they desperately tried to survive. Benjamin Hall is live in Kyiv with more on this.BENJAMIN HALL, FOX NEWS CHANNEL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, good evening, Judge. And speaking as someone on the ground, I want to say that this is not the media trying to drum up some emotional response, this is absolutely what's happening. From the cities of Kharkiv, to Mariupol, to (INAUDIBLE), they are being absolutely flattened. And from all corners of this country people are fleeing to for safety.Two million of them, as you say, so far have gone. And in the city of Mariupol, people are drinking water from puddles because the Russian forces haven't allowed them to get out. When they have tried to get out, they're shelled, there's routes of mine. The Red Cross buses have been unable to get in. It is an absolute catastrophe, and the people caught in the middle are the ones who are really suffering.And don't take it from my words, take from the words of some of those who are trying to flee. Have a listen.(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're just saving our lives and that's it. That's all we can do here.HALL: What have you left behind?UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our family. It's everything. Everything is -- we have to bags and that's it.(END VIDEO CLIP)HALL: There is more video than we know what to do with. It's so often does it come in. And so widespread is it. It is a tragic, tragic thing that is happening in this country. We will continue to cover it for you here on the ground, but it is only set to get worse. Back to you.PIRRO: Thanks so much, Benjamin. And if you would like to help out the refugee relief efforts, visit redcross.org or scan the QR code on the bottom right of your screen. Fox Corporation has donated $1 million to the American Red Cross. You too can join us in donating to provide aid and resources to those in need in Ukraine.You know what? Geraldo, you're very passionate about this. I'll go to you. The description of what's going on is, according to UNICEF, a dark historical first. There is a refugee situation created that is unlike anything we've ever seen in history. It takes individuals to resolve this. The government is not going to resolve this.RIVERA: Well, I think that -- I think you're right in this sense. When you look at what the Polish people have done, it makes me -- I could cry -- how they've opened their country to these refugees. Half of all the refugees have gone to Poland.Poland, remember, a couple of years ago, is part of the Soviet bloc. They were a communist country. It was -- they were, you know, our enemy. Now, look at them. They are fully democratic. They are welcoming these needy people saying come to us, taking their historic role. I admire them so, so much. I really -- I think that Poland has really stepped up to the plate.PIRRO: I think a lot of people have. And you know, Jesse, what's interesting is that the E.U. is offering those escaping of the war a visa waiver to live and work in any of the countries in the -- in the E.U. for the next three years. I mean, that didn't take them long at all. That just figured that one out.WATTERS: No. Well, yes, because this is their neighborhood and they reacted very quickly. To our discussion that we just had and what we've been hearing here, the American people could change their mind about what they feel our role should be in Ukraine. It could get so horrific after a little while that we could just change our entire calculation.How I feel and I think how the American people feel right now is that sanctions are really starting to destroy this economy. This is a very, very short war so far. It's what, 10 days old.PIRRO: 13.WATTERS: Let's see how this plays out. It's not -- it hasn't been over like that. The Ukrainian people are putting up a hell of a fight. Let's not jump into something. It's really easy to get into a war. It's impossible to get out of a war most of the time. That's how the people feel right now. And that could change. But right now, that is not the American people -- how they feel.PIRRO: Dana --WATTERS: Go ahead.PIRRO: We're not suggesting that we jump into the war, but is there more that we can do?PERINO: Well, I think there's a couple of things. One, is we get our own energy house in order. And I think that the President barely took a step forward on that today, that the private sector is going to have to do that. And the American people are going to have to say, look, 75 percent of us want to have more domestic oil and gas production because we've seen what happens to Europe have over time, several decades, they basically abdicated their responsibility to -- of their national security on the energy front because they were chasing some green dream.The other thing to keep in mind is that the energy crisis and the problems that are happening now at the ports means that there's going to be a major food crisis in the world.PIRRO: Yes.PERINO: Because a lot of grain and wheat comes out of Ukraine, about 30 percent for the world, so just automatically that's off the table. And today, you heard that China is buying up all the grain that it possibly can. So, now the prices are going to go up. The -- our world food program already had to have the amount of rations that they're giving to people who are in refugee camps, like in Yemen, for example. So, when you have a food crisis, that leads to more uprisings.So, the problem that is happening in Ukraine right now that war is going to have ripple effects all around the world in which America is going to be asked to take a leading role. You just have to figure out what we're going to do about it.PIRRO: Last Word, Gregl.GUTFELD: I don't know, Dana. What do you think? Should I address Benjamin Hall's cheap attack on me or should I be -- should I be a good co-worker --RIVERA: You can say that.GUTFELD: -- and let it slide.RIVERA: You can say that.PERINO: But remember what you said about our reporters last week.GUTFELD: I said wonderful thing about them.RIVERA: (INAUDIBLE)WATTERS: I think he also promised he would say bad things the other day.GUTFELD: I did. But I will be the better man here. As I said before when this started, we want the quickest end possible. My concern has always been when a narrative creates a story that bolsters one side, that is out of its element. Will you create more suffering? That was the simple point I'm making is that could this have been prevented if there was a reality-based decision made and not the David and Goliath narrative which could prolong this and lead to more suffering and more humanitarian crisis.RIVERA: Truth is an absolute defense.PIRRO: What do you mean two sides? What two sides? You got -- you've got Putin who attacked Ukraine?GUTFELD: Yes.PIRRO: What are the two sides? Is it justified?GUTFELD: Do you have time? Do you want to talk about it or do you want to stick to the simplicity of your --PIRRO: Oh, you mean there's some justification for the attack by Russia in Ukraine?GUTFELD: No, I didn't say that. This is the problem. This is the problem.PIRRO: OK.GUTFELD: You can actually talk substance about this.RIVERA: But give us one sentence.GUTFELD: We -- it has been going on for decades.PIRRO: This is unlike the Middle East. Up next, signs Putin --GUTFELD: There you go.PIRRO: -- could be losing control in Russia as he violently cracks down on his own people.(COMMERCIAL BREAK)PIRRO: How did we get to that?GUTFELD: Vladimir Putin continued to crack down on Russians who have been protesting his invasion of Ukraine. More than 13,000 protesters have reportedly been arrested in the past two weeks, including nearly 5000 this past Sunday alone.I heard someone make an interesting point, Dana, that Russia is destroying decades of economic progress, or Putin is. He's destroying Russia's decades. It's basically a sequel to the collapse of the USSR. This is like the second go-around. Did Putin just do that again?PERINO: Right. So, that's so interesting because what he was trying to do was reconstitute --GUTFELD: Right.PERINO: -- the USSR and it's like, oh, wait, whoops.GUTFELD: Yes.RIVERA: He didn't go back far enough.PERINO: But it's not just the whoops, right? I do think that there's another thing here which is we're talking about information, how do you get information.GUTFELD: Yes.PERINO: One of the things that authoritarian regimes, I'm going to put Putin in that category, they figure out a way to like, basically, wall off the internet so that you can't have access to it. But there are very, very smart people all around the world who are hacking and they provide little - - there are like, virtual safe rooms where you can search the internet and find out the information that you need.Young people in Russia will figure this out and they will show other people how to find those things. And we should support those types of efforts as well.GUTFELD: Yes, I mean, Jesse, it is -- Putin is old school, he's in a new school. There's no -- I don't think he understands what is going on outside this world and social media. Maybe he doesn't have to care, but it's -- I don't think that he understands how the world is looking at this or he cares.WATTERS: Yes. I don't think he thinks his people care as much as they do. But the ruble lost half its value, so everything's now literally twice as expensive. They can't travel. They can't use credit cards. And this is going to be twice as bad as the, I think, banking implosion in '98.They're going to contract their GDP something like double digits. This is so bad for the Russian people. They're going to have to build more prisons than they already have to arrest more protesters. To your point about wheat, that's maybe when you do have to do something in the Mediterranean, in Northern Africa, if there's famine, if no one can eat. You might have to send some naval assets over there and do something because you got to control this somehow.GUTFELD: Geraldo, so we have had pestilence, we've had pandemics, right? We've had war. And now, as Jesse says, we're up for a famine. This is truly Biblical stuff.RIVERA: The horsemen of the apocalypse.GUTFELD: Yes.RIVERA: Russia appears to be unraveling. I mean, I don't know. I'm not a Russia expert. It just seems to me as a -- as an observer that Russia is unraveling. This guy is now eliminating all dissent that had sprung up.The thing that really troubles me is his growling about nukes. Every time something -- he gets pressed, he growls about nukes. And I just worry. I really worry about it.GUTFELD: What do you think, Judge? Russia?PIRRO: I think Russia is in in the near future for it the same as Ukraine in terms of they're being crushed by this guy, Putin, not the same way but that they're being economically, financially, food wise, and expression wise. I mean, they're being arrested on the street, and he's going to finish them too. And we'll see. We'll see if they get rid of him.GUTFELD: All right, more breaking news from Ukraine next.(COMMERCIAL BREAK)WATTERS: Welcome back, everybody. Russia continuing its brutal assault on Ukraine. Let's err on the table for some final thoughts. Judge Jeanine.PIRRO: The humanitarian crisis is going to continue until the cessation of hostilities. It doesn't seem like that's going to happen soon. So, we're going to be seeing this for a lot longer.WATTERS: Yes, we will. Geraldo?RIVERA: Putin hates us. He hates our way of life. He hates our liberties. He wants to end the post-World War II order. He wants to absolutely make democracies obsolete. This is the Cold War Part Two just because we're further away (INAUDIBLE).WATTERS: OK, Geraldo, there is a clock right there. Maybe we'll get to you guys next time. That's it for us. "SPECIAL REPORT" is up next with Bret.Copy: Content and Programming Copyright 2022 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2022 VIQ Media Transcription, Inc. 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